Pub History Society

First of all I’d like to thank Bill Wells, Janet Pennington and Ted Bruning for adding information to the Bibliography. I have updated the website and there shouldn’t be any mistakes! Keep the information coming.

If anyone would like to add ANY material to the Bib or take on the responsibility for a particular county please let me know via the usual channels.

Diary Dates

Official PHS Outings

24^th January 2004 – Visit to Salisbury (including the Haunch of Venison). Organised jointly by M Slaughter and Ed Garman

20^th March 2004 – Visit to Manchester.

Please contact me if you would like to join any of the above visits.

Non PHS items.

12th February 2004 – Seminar. Drink and debauchery? An economic profile of the early modern public house by Dr Beat Kümin (University of Warwick).Guests are welcome at seminars, which are held in 3/5 Salisbury Road, Leicester at 2.10 p.m.

The seminars are well attended and we have limited space, so please could you ask any guests to give us a few days warning if they wish to come.

Please could they e-mail al34@le.ac.uk or phone 0116 252 2762 to reserve a space.

More information about the seminars and The Centre for English Local History can be found at the bottom of this newsletter.

24^thFebruary 2004 - Haunted and Historic Pub Tour of Peterborough. Part of National Pub Week. Hosted by Steve Williams and Mick Slaughter.

25^thFebruary 2004 - Haunted and Historic Pubs of Peterborough Slide Show. You've done the walk now see the film! To be held at the Cherry Tree, Oundle Rd. Hosted by Steve Williams

Anyone else doing anything for National Pubs Week?

Books noticed.

Abebooks have access to loads of books around the world. These are the ones I've noticed recently:-

British Gothenburg Experiments and Public House Trusts

The Chequers Inn (High Halden, Kent): Memoirs of a Nonagenarian (W. W. Martin) 1929, 22 sheets of A4 photocopy sheets made from a very rare little book, privately published, about the author's life at the Chequers Inn, High Halden, near Cranbrook in Kent

English Inns by Burke

Licensed Victuallers Official Annual 1936

Tales of Old Inns by Keverne

The Renaissance of the English Public House by Oliver

The Public House in Bradford 1770-1970 by PHS Member Paul Jennings

A Mailing list about English Pubs & Inns

I have now subscribed to the above list which I would recommend it to others. There is a search facility so you can look back over the previous enquiries. You can view the front page and subscribe if you wish at

http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/ENG/ENG-PUBS-INNS.html

News and Queries

Ye Three Fyshes in Turvey, Bedfordshire

Several weeks ago we included a link from the PHS website to the website of the above pub. Many will have read about the local community heroically banding together to find the money to purchase this ancient inn. Unfortunately their bid to buy the premises was rejected by Greene King in favour of an ‘anonymous buyer’. The whole village is disappointed at this news but would like to thank all for their support.

There is no further news at present but if you would like to have a look at their website you can do at

http://www.yethreefyshes.net/index.html

The Four Blue Pubs of Derby

Your web site address was passed to me by David Johnstone, ex head brewer for Bass. I’m researching a specific group of Art Deco pubs built, probably for Bass, in the Derby area. I understand that if all the ground plans of all the pubs are put together, the whole represents a ship. I understand that the pubs, The Blue Boy, Blue Pool, Blue Ball and Blue Peter, were probably built in the late 40’s early 50’s. Since you show a wealth of knowledge on your website, I wondered if you would know of a specific source that I may access to find information about these site plans.

My interest is not only to do with local pubs and beer, but also as a horticultural student, I am hoping to become involved in a project for the re-establishment of a garden at the Blue Boy, and I’m interested in featuring the overall plan of the four somewhere in the garden design.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Lynne

lynne.wood1@virgin.net

In reply from Mick Slaughter

The pubs were, of course, built in the 1930's by Offilier’s brewery of Derby, who were taken over by Bass. The Blue Peter opened in Jan 1935; Blue Boy opened in Jan 1936; and Blue Pool opened in May 1936.
I can't recall a Blue Ball - I haven't checked to see if it is mentioned on that web-site.

In the meantime, I have been advised (by Leicester CC Conservation Officer) of the whereabouts of one in Leicester - it is called the Blue Moon and situated in Carlisle Street on the west of the city - I plan to visit soon.

The only connection with a ship I was aware of is the similarity with the curved shape of Art Deco buildings. If you are looking for the floor plans you could try the Buildings Conservation Officer at Derby City Council quoting the dates above; or possibly (but unlikely) the Bass Museum to see if the records/plans of Offiliers pubs were transferred to and retained by Bass.

Cheers

Mick

1872 listings of pubs

In Bucks we have a list of pubs with ownerships etc collected, it is said as a result of the 1872 licensing act. I have nearly completed a transcript. I wonder whether such lists exist for other counties and if so are transcripts available. Also has anyone used them for the analysis of the ownership and distribution of pubs in such counties at that date.

Thanks david thorpe

In reply from aliitlebitofstick

Most county archive departments have such lists collected under penalty of prosecution from 1872. Of course it depends on whether the clerks to the licensing justices deposited them. But they are pretty comprehensive in the detail of location and size. Other valued sources are brewery records which also list the annual barrelage - many of these are kept at county records level as well. Police records of 'visits to licensed premises' retained until 1974 - many of these may be found at county police HQs. And there are a couple of detailed descriptions in documents relating to Mass Observation which was compiled during the 1930s and 1940s. These are kept at Sussex University at the Brighton campus.

Good hunting but its worth it.

Pubs & Breweries of East Surrey

I run the Pub & Brewery History group of the Bourne Society, the largest local history society in England covering parts of Tandridge and southern district of the London Borough of Croydon. We have visited well over 100 pubs in our area (and adjacent areas) since the group was formed, researching both buildings and people associated with pubs. We hope to publish our findings, but seek material including photographs to fill gaps in the story such as the war years and publicans since that time. New members are always welcome!

http://members.aol.com/apvsandford/index.html

apvsandford@aol.com

East Dereham, Norfolk

I am a Volunteer Museum Co-ordinator and am trying to do a display of the various public houses there have been in East Dereham, Norfolk from 1750. Where else can I get some information about them?

Thanks from Kate at the Bishop Bonner Cottage Museum in East Dereham.

katelynn@tiscali.co.uk

Information about the museum can be found at:-

http://www.aboutbritain.com/BishopBonnersCottageMuseum.htm

Dover, Kent

Dear Sirs.

Could you help me. I wonder if you know if there ever was a pub in Chaple Lane in Dover, Kent?

Yours Sincerely

Hamish Marshall.

hism@kent.ac.uk

Rose & Crown and the King’s Arms in Ludham in Norfolk

I discovered a couple of years ago that two of my ancestors were proprietors of two Ludham Pubs - Robert Newton Sr. (Rose & Crown) and his son Robert Newton Jr. (Kings Arms). Would anyone have any information of interest pertaining to those gentlemen? I have also seen a Richard Newton listed. I am not sure if he is a relative. Our next trip to the UK is 2005 and we plan to have a pint (or two) at the Kings Arms.

Your help is much appreciated.

Peter in Ontario, Canada

newtonp@sympatico.ca

Black Friar, Blackfriars, London

Does anyone know anything of the ownership/management of this pub at 174 Queen Victoria Street, EC4 over the period 1881 to 1910. The Publican seems to be John Cox from 1881 to 1901 from the censuses but he's also running an "inventor, patentee" business from that address patenting Tills and Coin changers. The pub itself suggests landlord is a Mr Petit in 1905.

coxg@btinternet.com

Re: Black Friar, Blackfriars, London

The Licensed Victuallers' Official Annual for 1904 (published December 1903) has a 'classified trade directory' section which lists Cox, JC, The Black Friar, 174 Queen Victoria Street EC under "Till Makers, &c".

Richards & Curl's City of London Pubs (1973) says the present building was built for Mr Petit in 1905.

Martyn Cornell

Re: Black Friar, Blackfriars, London

In reply from Geoff

Thanks Martyn. Maybe he had two jobs: publican and "inventor". Yes, Petit is credited with commissioning the wonderful art nouveau internal design by the sculptor Henry Poole. I think Cox must have moved around the corner by 1905 (to Little Water Lane-no longer there) with his Till and Coin-Changer business.

Geoff

coxg@btinternet.com

Some pictures of the Blackfriars are available here.

http://www.thejoyofshards.co.uk/london/blackfriar/index.shtml

Extracted from the English Pubs & Inns discussion/newsgroup.

Tadman in Hull

I am researching TADMANS in Hull who ran a number of different pubs including

W F TADMAN ran the March of Intellect on Water Works Street, Hull in 1885, Alexendra Inn 69 Hessle Road, Hull in 1895

H TADMAN 1876 Andrew Marvel at 35 White farm Gate

Mrs Jenny TADMAN 1830 The Blue Bell at 57 1/2 Market Place Hull

Richard Tadman 1916 Crown Inn Holderness Road

Richard Tadman 1921 Royal Hotel 54 Queens Street

Richard Tadman 1803,1806,1810, 1814 The Unicorn 192 High Street

Hannah Tadman 1817 1822 1823 1826 Unicorn as above

Any one with links to information to the above please contact me.

Regards

Sheila in Hornsea

sab2002@btinternet.com

Goodhew Pubs sold to Whitbread

Does anyone have any info on Pubs in and around the London/ Home Counties area that were owned by the Goodhews that were subsequently sold to Whitbread’s around 1982? (or before!)- LONDON, KENT, MIDDX AREA MOSTLY

ANY info VERY gratefully received!

Kind regards

haidee@ntlworld.com

THE PHESANT Lent Green, Burnham, Buckinghamshire

My Grandfather(George Dawson)I believe was a Beer retailer at THE PHESANT Lent Green, Burnham, Buckinghamshire, about 1918 to 1926. Would any one out there please be able to assist me with information about THE PHESANT or George Dawson.

Many thanks

Jenette Dawson Australia

kkfblpl@bigpond.net.au

The Richard Andrews. Isle of Wight

I am trying to trace my Great Grandparents pub that was around Newport in The Isle of Wight. It was called The Richard Andrews, after the Mayor of Southampton. Has anyone heard of it from the beginning of the century?

speaktodonna@yahoo.co.uk

Oddfellows Arms, Englefield Green

My great great grandfather was the beerhouse keeper at the above premises in Harvest Road aka Harvest Corner Road, aka Parsonage Road, aka Sandpits,in Englefield Green,Egham, Surrey, between c.1860 till 1893 when he died.

The tenancy passed out of family hands around 1900, and was turned into a private house around 1903. Although it appears in various rate books and census returns nobody locally has heard of it - even a keen local historian who's lived there all his life and even published a book of photographs of the village through the ages has no knowledge of it!

The original premises were demolished some time ago and newer premises are now there. I was wondering if it would be possible to find any reference to the pub anywhere? No photographs exist that I know of.

alan.wellbelove@ntlworld.com

Crystal Palace, Nottingham

Any information about the owners or landlords of this pub would be brilliant. I know that it is not any longer a pub. I am interested in 1920's 1930's or 1950's mainly.

goat888@hotmail.com

In reply from Andy Skelton

Christine, I remember the "Palace" well and its transformation into a slot machine.... Try sending a query to: www.archives.gla.ac.uk/sba/sbaform.html

Glasgow University houses the archives of Scottish and Newcastle who in turn bought the pubs of Greenall Whitley who in turn bought out James Shipstone and Son who would have been the owners in the period you are interested in.

Best Wishes

Andy

andyskelton@blueyonder.co.uk

Clock Tower Inn, Newbury

Does anyone have any information about the Clock Tower Inn, Newbury. I am given to understand that this was originally called the Queens Arms Inn - located at The Broadway, Newbury, Berkshire. My 3xGt Grandfather was the landlord there in the 1850's and I would be interested to know if anyone has a photo of the Inn in past. Many thanks.

cpickett@lineone.net

The London Porter House

I would welcome any information on The London Porter House, London Road, King's Lynn, Norfolk.

I know in 1958 the landlord was Edward Taylor. I am interested in the landlords from that date. This is a family history query.

I am looking for sons or grandchildren of Ted and Minnie Taylor.

Joan.

Joa@parkerflint.freeserve.co.uk

Additional information from Diary Dates

The Centre for English Local History is housed in a very fine Victorian villa, part of the Marc Fitch Historical Institute (which has about 150 postgraduate students), with a common room, research rooms, a purpose-designed map room, extensive computer and other excellent facilities, and it has been extremely well endowed through the generosity of the Marc Fitch Fund. The Centre also contains a fine and nationally important local history library (additional to the very large local and regional history collections in the main University Library). These resources are unrivalled by any other English provincial university. Professor Christopher Dyer is the Head of the Centre.

Our MA in English Local History is considered the leading MA in the subject in the UK. Taught in the famous Centre founded by W.G. Hoskins, it covers all England and Wales, with a strong emphasis on landscape history, community history and cultural regions in all periods, stressing regionally comparative approaches. The Centre is a flourishing postgraduate venue, with very highly reputed academic staff, and with about 60 postgraduate students it is a lively place to study.

Best wishes,

Audrey Larrivé

Miss Audrey Larrivé

Secretary to the Centre

Centre for English Local History

School of Historical Studies

University of Leicester

Marc Fitch Historical Institute

5 Salisbury Road

Leicester LE1 7 QR

Tel: +44 (0)116 252 2762

Fax: +44 (0)116 252 5769

Email: al34@le.ac.uk

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Steve